The MCIULearns Podcast

The Transformative Power of Inclusive Technology with Mike Marotta

• Montgomery County Intermediate Unit • Season 6 • Episode 5

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Prepare to be inspired by the transformative power of inclusive technology in education. Inclusive technology evangelist Mike Marotta joins us to share his incredible journey, from starting as an assistive technology specialist to becoming a passionate advocate for tools that benefit every learner. Together with co-host Julie Ortlieb, we explore practical strategies for educators to create classrooms that embrace diversity and reduce the need for special accommodations.

The conversation also shifts to the exciting world of AI, exploring its potential to revolutionize the educational landscape. We investigate how AI can support teachers in personalizing education and making learning more efficient, while also tackling concerns about its implications.

Learn with us at https://learn.mciu.org/ITA2425/ and follow Mike at the links below! 

Website: www.mmatp.com
Twitter: @mmatp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mikemarottaatp
Facebook: www.facebook.com/InclusiveTechSolutions
Instagram: InclusiveTechnologySolutions

 

Julie Ortlieb:

Inclusive technology is not just for special education. If we design educational experiences for everyone, then we need less accommodations and we need less retroactive fits for our students.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, for sure. Well said, I can't say anything else except yes, exactly, exactly what Julie just said. Yes, 100%.

Brandon Langer:

Hello Montgomery County and welcome to the MCIU Learns podcast. My name is Brandon Langer and I am the Director of Innovation and Strategic Partnerships at the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit in Norristown, pennsylvania, and this is our conversation with people that are passionate about moving education forward through all the variety of ways that intermediate units do that across Pennsylvania. We have conversations with so many terrific ed leaders, thought leaders in the space of education, and today is no exception. I'm joined today by a colleague from our Office of Organizational and Professional Learning, julie Ortlieb, so I'll let her introduce herself and our special guest.

Julie Ortlieb:

Hey everyone. I'm Julie Ortlieb, project consultant here at MCIU. My background is heavy in special education. I've taught in a lot of different landscapes in special education. Most recently was an inclusion facilitator and a multiple disability support teacher, and through that work I became very passionate about meeting the needs of students with more complex needs, and I love technology. So it was natural for me to start learning more about assistive technology and through that I got connected with Mike Murata. So I'm going to let Mike Murata introduce himself.

Mike Marotta:

Hi everybody, it's good to be here, julie Brandon.

Julie Ortlieb:

Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's great.

Mike Marotta:

Hello everyone. It's kind of funny as I think about this, I'm going to describe myself as a certain title and position and then I'm going to completely derail it the second I say it. I'm an assistive technology specialist, but I don't really like that title that much. That is, the core of what I do is I work with technology people with disabilities to make sure that they can achieve independence and be successful in what they're looking to accomplish. That all sounds great.

Mike Marotta:

Then I've thought about well, let me make it broader and I have now adjusted my title to an inclusive technology evangelist because I like the way that sounds. It looks really cool on a business card and I really think about this idea of highlighting the thought that the technologies we use for the kids with disabilities can also be very helpful for everyone in our schools and all the different kinds of learners we work with. And sometimes I feel like that title of assistive technology it becomes a barrier for people. They're like well, that's not the kids I work with, that's not the things I do, that's a special ed thing and I do this other stuff, and so sometimes that inclusive technology it at least gives me sometimes a crack in the door to kind of nudge my way in with someone and say no, this is kind of what we're thinking and it could help everyone in your class.

Brandon Langer:

Well, based on that summary, Julie, I think I already know the answer to this question, but maybe you could give us a little background on how you got connected with Mike and why he's here at the IU today.

Julie Ortlieb:

So I saw Mike at a few conferences, virtual conferences. We met up at NJEA. We were at a conference in New Jersey. He was right across from us at this education conference in New Jersey and we also had Chris and Rachel here a few years ago. So Chris Bouguet was a co-author of the book Inclusive 365. So Mike Murata, also a co-author of Inclusive 365.

Julie Ortlieb:

And I just have to say I became obsessed with the book and the work of Chris Bouguet and Rachel Meadle and Mike Murata and all the other authors of the text. Rachel wasn't an author of that text, but I include her because she is an integral piece of this work as well. And this book I just couldn't put it down. And it's one of those books that you can just have on your bookshelf and you're trying to achieve something in your classroom and you need a strategy, you need a tip. You can flip to a spot in that book and find a strategy or find a tool, and so I, just when thinking about bringing more assistive technology and inclusive technology to our county, I thought Mike Murata has to come to Montgomery County. You just have to. So I'm so excited to have you here.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, it's been great.

Mike Marotta:

I love the idea and I love that description of the book, which I think is a perfect kind of encapsulation of our book is we weren't looking to create something that was a read from cover to cover, but instead little moments.

Mike Marotta:

It talks about 365, it's the idea being a little thing you can do every day of the year to become more inclusive in what you do completely in class. And so this idea of sometimes people get a book that kind of front to back book, not to make fun of books I love reading books, that's great, but this is not that kind of book. It's like, well, what do I have a minute for right now to learn something new? Or sometimes looking at it. The opposite way is getting into someone's head where they say, well, I have this thing in my classroom already. Are there other ways I can use it that I'm not thinking about yet that are more inclusive. Like, oh, I use Google Docs, but I never thought to use it that way, and so that was kind of our approach to again giving people little opportunities for success that over time, build into some very powerful changes in the way they deliver instruction.

Brandon Langer:

So I think that process makes a lot of sense to me, especially in the busyness that can be a teacher's life in the middle of a school year right, we don't often have times to pause and go something front to back. So I love that approach. But in terms of the content itself, what does inclusive technology mean to you specifically?

Mike Marotta:

So it's that idea of thinking about the technologies we have and are there ways that I can be flexible, using that technology to meet any need that pops up in my classroom. So when I think about inclusive technology, a lot of times we are leaning pretty heavily on the ed tech tools that are already in the classrooms, again trying not to give someone one more thing to learn, but instead highlighting hey, maybe you already know some of these things and this might give you a different lens to put in front of that, to think about how you could address any need in your classroom.

Brandon Langer:

I love that because I have a lot of conversations about educational technology with all sorts of levels of educators whether that's paraeducators, teachers in the classroom, leaders and often people seem to be wandering around looking for something to fix their problem and sometimes I'm like, well, you have this thing over here already. It sounds like you just need to dive a little bit deeper and sometimes reimagine how what you're using. You said this in the opening this thing over here already. It sounds like you just need to dive a little bit deeper and sometimes reimagine how what you're using. You said this in the opening. I believe how you could reimagine even your Google tool set if you're a Google school and how powerful that really is when you dive into it and start to think about the design and use of it, rather than just what you thought it was the first time you used Google Docs, or Slides or something.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, I think you're right. How many times and I think you hit it right on the head is people are constantly. I mean, I shouldn't say constantly, but a lot of times people are show me another tool, show me another thing. I don't know enough tools and what we find is I mean, look around in our classrooms. There's more technology in our classrooms than ever before. Technology in a classroom is not always the barrier. There's things there. It's like you said. It's how am I using them and am I using them to the extent?

Brandon Langer:

and using all the features that are available. Julie, this is part of a larger movement you have going here with Inclusive Technology Academy. What can you tell us about that work and how this fits into that puzzle for you?

Julie Ortlieb:

I became very intrigued and an avid reader and listener of all these ideas around inclusive technology, because a lot of times we want to find that fix or that thing that's going to remedy a situation for a specific student, but when we think about inclusive technology we really think about this universal, design, forward approach, in that we're not just trying to find technology for those that qualify for it.

Julie Ortlieb:

We want to look for a broader approach and having options that can meet the needs of many or all learners.

Julie Ortlieb:

And so when we were thinking about this inclusive technology academy, we were looking at the through line to MTSS and how we provide these universal supports and these tiered supports, so supports for all students, some students, few students and we wanted to showcase that in conjunction with assistive technology and educational technology in general, to show how we can approach technology in the same way that we approach anything else in education, with this layering of tiered supports.

Julie Ortlieb:

And so we have two segues, two pathways of this offering. So one is a general registration where we invited anybody to come to three half-day workshops and we're really focused on those more universal services, tools supports and those tier one options, so to speak. And then we have core teams that stay for learning, deeper learning, in the afternoon. They also get to attend webinars and have more hands-on coaching from Mike, and those core teams are a range of participants from the district Could be general educator, administrator, speech and language pathologist. We have occupational therapists, so we're looking for a team of people that's going to come together to really look at those more advanced tier two, tier three, so to speak, supports and leverage that team approach to inclusive technology.

Brandon Langer:

And that's ongoing this year.

Julie Ortlieb:

Yes, so we started, we kicked off in September and we've had today's, our second day of our in-person workshop. We have one more in-person workshop and then we also have, through lines of webinars and coaching, support from Mike as well Awesome.

Brandon Langer:

That sounds really, I mean, like a really unique approach from both of you. On how to talk about ed tech Cause. Again, like you kind of alluded to it, we get constantly bombarded with what's the new thing? You know all of that and a presentation I'm prepping right now. I'm kind of spinning around this idea of a toolbox, because anyone that's done this long enough knows that there's actually really not a big difference between all of these technology tools and your average toolbox. If you need a wrench, you use a wrench. If you need a hammer, use a hammer.

Brandon Langer:

If you're trying to hang a thumbtack on the wall, you don't need a hammer, you know you have what you need on your hand, but so really it comes down to intention and what you want to do. But, mike, I think kind of to your point. Before there's one side of the puzzle or group of people that want to constantly find new, new, new or the thing that's going to fix whatever problem today, there's kind of this other side of the group that says there's already too much. How do you approach those conversations where teachers are feeling overwhelmed with what they already have and now you're layering on one more thing?

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, that's always been a trick. It's a delicate balance always of finding that moment. You know, I think earlier in my career of helping teachers and supporting teachers in the classroom, I was quick to say this won't be more work for you. And then what happens? It's inevitably a little bit more work for you At some point it might not be more work. And that's where now I've become a little more realistic with them and say look, this is going to challenge you in the beginning a bit. It's going to challenge the way you think about things. It's going to challenge, maybe, your skill set and you're going to have to put some time into it. That time you will be rewarded at the end because it will make things easier as you go forward. And so when we talk to some of those reluctance you know I don't want anything, or I don't even want the Chromebooks I have in my room it's really about kind of the coaching philosophy and the modeling of look at some of the things we can do with technology. Does this feel like something you would be willing to try in your room and bring them along this process and just being very supportive with them throughout?

Mike Marotta:

I think one of the great things about what we're doing with Julie in the academy is that it's not a one-off, it has a continuation, and I think that's really powerful because we're not just all sitting in a workshop today. We are now a learning community. We've met each other. This is the second time we've met each other For some of the people in the group. We've already had two different webinars and two in-person things, so it's really nice. I was laughing this morning with Julie and said maybe I'll get through all of my planned stuff today, and you know what, I didn't, because we had a great conversation. That was not on the plan, but it was what was in people's minds at the time, and allowing us to kind of take that moment and do that left. I feel like those people left with some very concrete examples of a planning process for next steps for themselves to be successful. So I think a lot of that. It's just that support. It's constantly it's given them.

Mike Marotta:

I love your toolkit idea. This idea here's some little things you can try and in that toolkit might be things you already have and it's going to force you to look at them a little differently. What do you mean? Google Docs is in my toolkit. Well, it is. It's a powerful tool. Are you using it that way?

Brandon Langer:

Yeah, I remember what I was doing. But I was doing, but I was doing something with my dad in my house and we got to the part of the project and he goes well. That's why I bought you this thing and it had been, you know, like literally in my house toolkit for 10 years. Never used it once. I think it was like a wrench that like reset I don't do any plumbing, it's not my strength or forte in life, but it was something to do with plumbing, but anyway, it's to your point.

Brandon Langer:

It can be sitting there, sitting there, sitting there, and then finally, this is when we're ready to use or learn about it or deploy it in our space. I think one of those things that has just kind of come out of left field for some people is AI, and it feels like the next big conversation in classrooms and in school systems in general, because it's not just a classroom. Now we're talking about tools that exist for everybody, whether you work in the HR office or the business office, or you are in a classroom teacher or you're a principal. So I'm curious how both of you feel about this next generation of technology tools in the classroom.

Julie Ortlieb:

Oh, this is Europe and a whole can of worms as always, it's a can of worms for sure.

Julie Ortlieb:

I'm so excited we're talking about this this afternoon at our workshop today, and I think there's so much power in how we use artificial intelligence. I have a heavy background in literacy as well, so thinking about how we can change the readability of text, make things more accessible for students who might not be on grade level with reading or might need a scaffolded text or vocabulary that's targeted in a different way. I see so much power with these AI tools. And then I also see that note of caution, of making sure that we are keeping things individualized and not just pulling from anything that a chat bot says to us, and making sure that we're honoring who that individual is and what they need outside of a robotic answer. So there's a lot there, but I think there's huge benefit, more than harm, to be done with AI.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, I think it is our next big seismic shift in education with technology is AI and how we approach it and what that looks like. And I think that we see some people still in kind of a panic mode like, don't give me any of that, I don't want any of that. Yet we could probably talk to them about a handful of AI-based tools that they're already using. They don't even realize it. So, you know, trying to allay some of that fear, and, like Julie pointed out, there's great examples of how to use AI tools as a professional to be much more efficient in what you do, and then there are ways that the students can use them also, and so we have to balance that and understand what it is we're talking about and do we have a systematic approach to how we're going to roll that out, support it with our educators and our learners so that we can use those tools and it doesn't become another moment of? You know, we're from the AT field and I spend a lot of time in my life explaining to people that AT is not cheating, and now I've modified that to say AI is not necessarily cheating. I could argue there might be a moment where it could be considered cheating. If I just have something do the entire thing for me, yeah, that's cheating. But there's a lot of other spots before that, before I get to an AI doing everything for me that are not cheating. But people are seeing it that way and you know, does your school have a plan of how to approach this?

Mike Marotta:

I've been looking at it from a different model with schools that I've been talking to is that we'll talk about some this afternoon. The bigger part of it is about are you, as a school, prepared, with policies and procedures, to support educators and learners using these things? And what does that look like? I've had talks with teachers where I show them how to do AI that will help them with the things Julie mentioned, you know, leveling text or helping to develop IEP goals and objectives and things like that.

Mike Marotta:

And I'll have educators say that's amazing, I can't wait to use that. And then, when we talk about how a student could put a prompt into an AI tool to start generating an outline of what they might write, they're like well, that's cheating. I said, but we just talked about it for you and it was okay, and now we're talking about it over here, on this other hand, and it's not okay and so we need to rectify that. We need to have that conversation of what that looks like in school, which I don't know if a lot of schools are having yet. I feel like it's too new still.

Brandon Langer:

Yeah, I can speak to that a little bit, just because it is more in my wheelhouse in terms of the number of conversations that I find myself involved in. I think everybody's having conversations. I think they vary in scope and scale and level of conversation, and I do believe there is enough recency with some of the other advancements that have kind of happened in my time in education. Whether you want to point to Wikipedia or the smartphone or one-to-one initiatives. A lot of that has kind of happened very quickly comparatively to Apple II, to the internet. I mean, you're talking about a 10-year gap between those, whereas the things I just listed all happened in a matter of 14, 15 years. Four major shifts in 10, 15 years. So I think there's a lot of people hoping to learn from those mistakes.

Brandon Langer:

Social media is another one that comes up in terms of how we approach that in classrooms and schools. So I'm hopeful that we're going to try and apply some of the learning from what we did there. But I will say I think it varies dramatically from district to district, especially as we're out here on this East Coast I know you're from New Jersey like smaller districts, smaller admin teams. Systems are a little bit smaller than you say in the Midwest or South, where you have these big county city systems. So the approach is going to be very local to start with and you know, I think, as with anything, you'll have your early champions and adopters and you'll have your nays naysayers and the regular adoption curve will play out in some manner of speaking. The speed at which it plays out is the part that I'm interested in.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, I think you're right. I think the speed, I think this is going to feel very accelerated as this happens, Because think about how many AI tools come out every day that people are like did you hear about this, Can I use this? And it might be. I don't even know what that is yet.

Brandon Langer:

Yeah Well, and not to freak anyone out, but what happens when the tools start writing the tools? I mean that's just going to accelerate things even more. So, yeah, we could have a whole other side conversation on that. I don't want to pigeonhole us too much into an AI conversation, but I do want to wrap up with just a quick question about what comes next, as you're in a workshop here today. Julie mentioned the academy. Is it too late for someone to join the academy this year?

Julie Ortlieb:

So we have one more in-person session, so more than welcome to come to that last in-person session. It's sure to be filled with a lot of strategies for different curricular areas in the realm of technology and assistive technology. And I think, if I didn't mention this already, what we want to get out of this assistive technology is really to normalize the technological supports and not have it feel like something that's just for special education. Assistive technology is not just for special education, or inclusive technology is not just for special education. If we design educational experiences for everyone, then we need less accommodations and we need less retroactive fits for our students.

Mike Marotta:

Yeah, for sure. Well said, I can't say anything else except yes, exactly, exactly what Julie just said.

Brandon Langer:

Yes, 100%, sorry. One closing thought on that point Our opening day, when we were kind of talking, she was speaking about the invention of the iPad and how that was so great from the standpoint of. That was something that every student understood. It wasn't this other device that didn't. It looked foreign or alien to the classroom. It became more of a conversation on, well, what are you doing on your iPad? This is how I use my iPad, and even just that made it great from the standpoint of. It just leveled the playing field in the conversation. It was no longer this thing in the corner, to the point about it not just being for special education, but it would be servicing everybody in a positive way, so I thought that was a great point.

Julie Ortlieb:

And I just have to call out Julia Adanoffy as well, because she's been such an integral part of developing the Inclusive Technology Academy and it was her idea to bring back this core team. We had core team trainings in the past, before I even came to the IU, and the two of us were really brainstorming and talking, as well as Carrie Kessler and Lauren Benfield. We've had a great team to develop this, along with Mike, and the idea of a core team was just really brought forth with Julie's help, and she works so closely with our school district, specifically with the SET process and with assistive technology, so with her communication and reach outs we were really able to get a lot of core teams in for this whole training. So it's been wonderful.

Brandon Langer:

Yeah, no, this was a great conversation. Thank you both for sitting down chatting. Have a great afternoon session. For those that are interested, we'll drop the links into the description for the Assistive Technology Academy that's underway, as well as some other contact information. And, if you haven't followed us yet, online at MCIU Learns, we're constantly posting updates. We have our own MCIU Learning Network with blogs, podcasts and other information. Be sure to check that out at learnmciuorg. Thank you, julie. Thank you, mike, for today's conversation. Thank you, we'll see you next time.